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Post by Cloud on Jul 2, 2008 1:14:19 GMT -5
It may of never existed, but It's always been there.
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Post by luigi on Jul 2, 2008 2:07:04 GMT -5
It may of never existed, but It's always been there. Not true... at one point in time there was nothing. If there really is nothing, isn't it logical to say that gravity itself wasn't there at the time?
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Post by Cloud on Jul 2, 2008 9:53:16 GMT -5
It may of never existed, but It's always been there. Not true... at one point in time there was nothing. If there really is nothing, isn't it logical to say that gravity itself wasn't there at the time? Yeah, I guess so.. But like rules, logic is ment to be broken as well.
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Post by zeldamaster on Jul 2, 2008 11:02:17 GMT -5
It may of never existed, but It's always been there. Not true... at one point in time there was nothing. If there really is nothing, isn't it logical to say that gravity itself wasn't there at the time? oh crap now i have to explain spacetime...Gravity has always existed...u said at one point in time there was nothing....that statment is incorrect...time is relavent to existence they exist on the same plane...before there was anything...there was no time...time began with the first action...basically the big bang...this leads people of average intellegence to ask what caused the first action...there had to be something before that (i once asked these questions) but the fact is there wasn't...most people can't conprehend it because it seems like nothing magically formed everything something had to cause it...so humuns use god the fill their lack of understanding....we live on a plane of existinse...the force required to create a force in this universe therefore creating time could have been a black hole of another deminsion or as simple as a peaticle caught in a trans-dimensional time loop (which is more probable)...gravity has existed as long as time itself has...and it does...the thought that this all doesn't exist is absured...because there are rules that can't be broken....
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Post by luigi on Jul 2, 2008 14:12:07 GMT -5
This the kind of crap you beleive that is pure speculation. There was no Big Bang, no God, because you can't get something from nothing. There was nothing, (none of these "peaticles"... I'm asuming that's particles. Whatever) to spark the flow of time. For after all, what is time? What is it that drives time? There are no answers that you can give that are true, for your answer will come from other men, and other men understand so little. Gravity is no different. For what is gravity without an object? It is nothing. Therefore, why say gravity exists there when there is none? Because men understand so little. This plane of existance? You speak so sure of yourself... We could be no more than another dream... for dreams can feel as real as life. Gravity and time exist in my dream. I can feel things in my dream. The indiviuals in my dream think for themselves... if not, I would know everything they were about to say. Read my other post to see what I mean. Because you focused too hard on just one sentence. The thought this all doesn't exist is very possible. There are rules can be broken... anything can be broken with the proper mathematical equation... again, I explained in my other post.
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Post by Cloud on Jul 2, 2008 14:23:35 GMT -5
I love your arguments Luigi, but for some reason, The Zelda Master seems to make the most sense when it comes to this topic.
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Post by luigi on Jul 2, 2008 14:51:25 GMT -5
Haha, thanks, but I don't see much sense coming out of these arguments... We understand so few things ourselves... but you wonder though, right? Nothing is absolute.
Make sense? It's just fun. Haha...
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Post by Cloud on Jul 2, 2008 14:54:34 GMT -5
Haha, thanks, but I don't see much sense coming out of these arguments... We understand so few things ourselves... but you wonder though, right? Nothing is absolute. Make sense? It's just fun. Haha... Yeah I guess your right lol. I think this debate could go on for days. Thats why I love it. .
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Post by zeldamaster on Jul 2, 2008 15:58:13 GMT -5
This the kind of crap you beleive that is pure speculation. There was no Big Bang, no God, because you can't get something from nothing. There was nothing, (none of these "peaticles"... I'm asuming that's particles. Whatever) to spark the flow of time. For after all, what is time? What is it that drives time? There are no answers that you can give that are true, for your answer will come from other men, and other men understand so little. Gravity is no different. For what is gravity without an object? It is nothing. Therefore, why say gravity exists there when there is none? Because men understand so little. This plane of existance? You speak so sure of yourself... We could be no more than another dream... for dreams can feel as real as life. Gravity and time exist in my dream. I can feel things in my dream. The indiviuals in my dream think for themselves... if not, I would know everything they were about to say. Read my other post to see what I mean. Because you focused too hard on just one sentence. The thought this all doesn't exist is very possible. There are rules can be broken... anything can be broken with the proper mathematical equation... again, I explained in my other post. i don't mean to focus on one sentence again...but not all rules can be broken by some mathimatical equation...like idk... MATH!!!!! also yes my answer came from another man but that man happens to be STEVEN f**kING HAWKINGS!!!!!! life is no dream there is a distinct difference between the two...i've had dreams that felt so real...but when i woke up (assuming i remember then) they didn't make sense...this existance makes sense this arguement should of ended with René Descartes...no one is dreaming ur thoughts of questioning ur own existence...i think therefore i am...it is an accepted fact...i'm 100% sure...life is NOT a dream...and u may ask how can anyone be sure of anything?....because some rules...CAN NOT be BROKEn!
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Post by luigi on Jul 2, 2008 16:25:21 GMT -5
First of all... math is not a universal law. Man created the idea, thus it is man-made. Math wasn't always there. Man at one point did not grasp the concept of math, and it didn't exist. It was made up, as language was, to make everything easier. Do you really beleive Steven Hawkings knows everything? Life could so totally be a dream... right now, you could be in some coma whispering god knows what. Again, men understand so little about existance and it's nature. Religous, Scientific, it's all SPECULATION. Nobody remembers anything, because at one point, there was nothing. This nothing somehow magically exploded and nothing made everything. Is that right? Like I said, in real self-realization in a dream, people think for themselves. I have conversations in my dreams... I don't dream up the conversation... it comes to me. I don't already know what that person is going to say. I think in the dream. Am I in the dream? Do I exist in the dream? Does the dream exist? I think therefore I am. I am in the dream. I have complete control over myself. In real life I think. Am I in "real life"? Do I exist in real life? Does real life exist? Who are we to say this is real? Who are you to say this is a fact? How can you be sure of anything when it is possible to break any law?
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Post by zeldamaster on Jul 2, 2008 17:06:20 GMT -5
it is NOT possible to break all laws that is my arguement...math existed before man could comprehend it we just named it...before we knew 2+2=4...it still did...its that simple...i don't see how u can argue that...but i look forward to hearing ur absract questions with no answer(or awser u will accept) used to explain ur arguement
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Post by luigi on Jul 2, 2008 17:29:57 GMT -5
You can break any law, with the correct knowledge and equation (don't try it home)... How could Math have existed? How does Math really exist today without knowledge of Math? Let's go back to when people never grasped the concept. Where will you find it? Where exactly will you find that it existed? No written records... just grunts and pointing. It's not there. You won't find an answer to two plus two without someone having base knowledge. It's not physically possible. You speak as though it's tucked away nicely in some safe somewhere. Univserally, without knowledge, the equation makes no sense. Therefore it isn't there, for how long have we gone without adressing the equation 2+2? For you can't find an answer without first stumbling upon the problem. The problem at a point was never there, never made up, until another physical problem came at hand.
The questions (I hoped you caught on) were supposed to represent the humans lesser understanding of dreams or life and the connection that irrevalently averts them. For we understand not, and can't possibly answer these questions because what is existance? We're here in our own eyes, but are we really here? Where does all this data I'm typing in go? It's here, but where is it really? Where is data? Data exists. The point is that you can't begin to answer these questions because nobody knows enough to prove anything... for what is proof without existance? Until we know it all, you can't answer my questions... you may try, but you're taking a guess because you don't know or place your faith in ... Steven Hawkings ... and you really can't prove anything. Energy can't be developed from nothing. Time can't start without events. Nothing couldn't have existed. It had to start from energy. You can't get something without energy.
Do you understand what I am saying?
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Post by zeldamaster on Jul 2, 2008 18:19:14 GMT -5
yes but ur thinking like a simpleton (sp)...nothing didn't exist cus when there is nothing there is no existense...a rock next to a rock is 2 rocks before we labelled it 2 the truth is still there...boy this is getting absract...hmmmmm...ok we travel back in time there are two cavemen sitting next to 4 stone pillars...they don't know its "4" they say its this many *holds up 4 fingers* the number of rocks is 4 wether its called that or not...divide it by 2 it u will get 2 groups of 2 pillars square it 16 etc...etc...math exists regardless of comprehension....its like saying before we coprendend the sun being the center of the solar system it wasn't
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Post by luigi on Jul 2, 2008 18:29:32 GMT -5
You aren't listening. Your example is horrible because the sun is physical and math isn't. You can't physically see math. Therefore math physically does not exist. But at one point when there is no math it's just "rocks"... multiple objects. And the example you're giving was the discovery of math... And you kind of just explained yourself that it would be impossible to accept the Big Bang theory... since nothing couldn't have existed at a point. Because without something there, it isn't existance.
Are we going to keep talking math because you're still on the same point despite my attempt to change your direction.
Also...
Hehe...
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Post by zeldamaster on Jul 2, 2008 19:07:37 GMT -5
so ur saying that at the point math begin existing...thats wrong the rules were there...we didn't just make it up we abserved it its true weather we accept it as true or not...there are complex mathmatics we can't comprehend at this point...but there still correct
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